Do you worry about what other people think of you? Do you think anxiety is something that is a detriment in your life? Can you be stoic and have big ambitions? These are just a few of the questions I'm gonna answer in today's Q & A episode.
Hello, friends. My name is Erick Cloward and welcome to the Stoic Coffee Break.
The Stoic Coffee Break is a weekly podcast where I take aspects of stoicism and do my best to break them down to the most important points. I share my thoughts on stoicism, pull from agents and modern wisdom, as well as areas like psychology and neuroscience, and anything I can get my hands on that can help you think better.
Because I believe if you can think better, you can live better. Like I said, this week's episode is a Q & A episode, and it's built around questions that I hear again and again from my listeners, from my coaching clients, and honestly questions that I've wrestled with myself. So there's not gonna be any long preamble, just for big questions, sum ancient wisdom, and I hope some genuinely useful answers.
So let's get into it.
Question number one. “How do I stop caring about what other people think of me?”
So this is a very powerful question because it's one of the most common questions that that we ask ourselves as we're growing up. We're constantly told, oh, don't worry about what other people think of you, but it's something that we worry about a lot.
In fact, this is one of the most searched for questions on the internet. And think about that. Millions of people privately searching to figure out, how do I stop caring about what other people think because they're worried about being judged or getting stuck worrying about what other people think of you.
So Marcus Aurelius nailed it centuries ago. He said, it never ceases to amaze me. We all love ourselves more than other people, but care more about their opinions than our own. And what he meant by that was simply that we get. That we should be the ones who form our opinion about ourselves, not what other people think about us.
Now, that doesn't mean that we don't care about people. So here's the free reframe that I wanna offer. The goal isn't to become someone who doesn't care about other people, because that's not stoicism. The stoics are very big on cosmopolitanism, meaning that we view other people as part of our giant human family.
Cosmopolitanism coming from the cosmos, but, when we don't care about other people, then that's just attachment or maybe arrogance. The goal is to stop needing their approval to feel okay about yourself. And this is something that I struggled with for a long time growing up. So I, as most of you know, who've listened, my podcast, I grew up in Salt Lake City, which is very Mormon, and I grew up Mormon.
When you live in a culture that adheres to a very strict set of behaviors that are, uh, looked down upon or approved, then you're not really living authentically for yourself. You're constantly looking for the approval of other people to make sure that you're living correctly or at least living according to what society wants you to.
But the thing is, is what really worked for me was getting to the point where. I wasn't too worried about being accepted by other people. The person that I was most worried about was being accepted by me because I was constantly comparing what I did with what other people thought I should do. And I was constantly trying to get other people to like me and get their acceptance.
And once you reach that point where you're able to start accepting yourself for exactly who you are. And start liking yourself, then you don't need the approval of others to feel okay about yourself. So Brene Brown draws a sharp line here. She talks about any belonging that requires you to betray who you are isn't really belonging at all.
It's just fitting in. And the stoics would agree with that completely. And in my case, having grown up in Salt Lake, that was what it felt like, that I was living according to what other people wanted, rather than living according to what I felt was the right way to live in my own heart. The dichotomy of control cuts right through this other people's opinions of you are not in your control.
What other people think of you is none of your business. Now, what is under your control is your character, your choices, your integrity. Those are the most important things, and when you invest your energy in the second category, meaning those things that you actually have control over, then needing the approval of others starts to lead to the script.
So. The way that you can practice this is ask yourself, whose opinion am I actually afraid of right now? And what am I afraid they'll think? And usually when you name it, you start to realize the approval you're chasing from other people. Well, you often don't really even respect it. It's just that you want them to like you, and that's something worth sitting with onto.
Question number two: “What's the stoic take on anxiety? Is worrying ever useful?”
So Seneca wrote that we suffer more in imagination than in reality. And if you've ever spent three days dreading a conversation that took five minutes and went completely fine, you know exactly what he means. But here's where I wanna be careful, because I don't think that the stoic answer is just stop worrying.
That's not philosophy. That's a bumper sticker. So the stoics actually had a deliberate practice of imagining bad outcomes, and they called it premeditatio malorum, and that means the premeditation of evils and Marcus Aurelius would mentally rehearse what could go wrong before a campaign for a difficult meeting before a hard day.
And Seneca wrote a lot about this, that the person who sits through and sits down and thinks about these things, then when these things arise, he's not shocked by them and he's able to deal with them. So the purpose is not to catastrophize. It's not to make yourself even more anxious. It was to prepare.
It was to take away the shock and to walk in clear eye. And part of the way that you do this is that you look at these things without any judgment. You do your best to be objective about it and try to tease out the parts that are your emotional reactions and the thoughts behind it versus what the facts really are.
When you can do that, then you can look at things clear-eyed. So the more you can take away your judgements, then look at things in a factual basis, the easier it is to deal with them. And then again, once you've taken that time, you're able to prepare for when those things go wrong. So there's a real distinction worth drawing here as well.
Anxiety is a signal versus anxiety as a story, a flash of word that says, Hey, this matters. Pay attention. Because anxiety is a flag, and that can be very, very useful. That's your nervous system doing its job. But when anxiety spins into a narrative about everything that could go wrong and what that would mean and who you'd be if that happened, that's the imagination running unchecked.
And that's when you get into rumination and you start to spiral downwards. And this is something that even though I've been studying stoicism for the last 10 years, I still struggle with, in fact, a few weeks ago I got caught in kind of a downward spiral like that. And what helped take me out of that was sitting down looking at things a little more clear-eyed.
I talked to a really good friend of mine and he was able to help me kind of see where I was spinning out and pointed out things where I could look at it a little more clear-eyed, and that reframe was incredibly important. Now, another thing that is really helpful is to ask yourself when you're starting to have anxiety is, is this in my control?
And that's not to dismiss the feeling that you have, but it's kind of a redirect because it helps you to start thinking, where can I actually put my energy right now? And if you're worrying about something that is out of your control, that's something that you can start to let go of and just recognize that there's nothing that you can do about that.
So put your energy into something where you actually do have control. So the next time you find yourself spiraling out, just pause and ask, am I preparing for something or am I just suffering in advance? And if it's the second, well come back to what's in front of you and take some action where you can.
Question number three: “Can you be a good stoic and still have big ambitions? Doesn't stoicism teach contentment?”
Well, I love this question because there's a real tension here. So Stoicism definitely does teach us that we should be content with the things that we have, but we also need to understand that the stoics want us to flourish, and part of that flourishing is to use the talents that we have to become something greater than we are.
So I think that when we hear contentment, we often have that as a misread. So, Le Stoics have a concept called preferred indifference. Things like health, success, reputation, wealth. And the idea is that these things aren't virtuous in and of themselves, but the pursuit of them done with excellence and integrity absolutely can be a a, an expression of virtue.
So Marcus Aurelius was the most powerful man in the Roman Empire. And even though he was emperor, he didn't give that up. He used that. For the good of other people, and he used it to become a better person, and he constantly wrestled with how to use that well. And here's where the emotional courage framing matters.
There are two ways that you can strive. You can strive from fear, and that's the need to prove yourself to finally feel like you're enough to silence the voice that says you're not good enough to be successful in the eyes of others. And that kind of ambition is exhausting and it's never satisfied.
Because the goal isn't really the goal, it's the, the goal is the feeling that you think you'll have from when you arrive. Now, when you strive from virtue, from the desire to fully use what you've been given to contribute, to grow, to leave something good behind, and that kind of ambition is sustainable, it doesn't collapse when you fail because failure doesn't threaten who you are.
So Ralph Waldo Emerson, put it simply, “Make the most of yourself for that is all there is of you.” And the Stoics would call that virtue, and I think it's the only kind of ambition that's really worth having.
So here's a practice you can do. Look at the biggest goal that you're chasing right now, and ask yourself, honestly, am I pursuing this because I genuinely want to build something or because I'm trying to outrun a feeling or impress other people with my success?
Now both of them can produce results, but only one of those produces peace. So question number four. I know what I should do, but I can seem to make myself do it. What's the stoic answer to this gap? First off, this is a problem that is as old as time, and the Greeks had a name for this called Razia, and it means weakness of will or acting against your better judgment.
And Aristotle wrote all about it. The thing is you're not broken. This is an ancient problem. This is a human problem, and Epictetus doesn't let us off the hook that easily, though he would say that you are doing what you most want to do in that moment. The part of you that scrolls instead of rights, that avoids instead of acts.
That part has wants too. Usually it's to avoid discomfort. It's to feel safe and it's to risk not failing. And this is where emotional courage comes in because a lot of what we call lack of discipline is actually just avoidance of discomfort. The action itself might not be hard at all, but the feeling that precedes it can be incredibly challenging.
And we've learned to interpret that feeling as a stop sign. We come up against resistance and we think that it's telling us that we need to stop this. And the thing is, is when we're working on anything that is important, we're going to face resistance. And it's really about stepping up and having the courage to face that.
Now, James Clear gives us some clues on how we can also do that, and he puts it this way. You don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. The stoics would, would totally agree with this, although they might frame it slightly differently. You act from who you are, who you believe yourself to be.
And for them it was about identity came first and action followed, meaning you decide that you're the kind of person that does a certain thing. And so by not doing it, then you are going against your own identity. So one practice that you can do that can be incredibly helpful is a nightly review. Not as punishment or judgment, but as a calibration.
You ask yourself three questions before going to sleep. What did I do well, where did I fall short, and what will I do differently tomorrow? Now, these are small, honest and consistent questions, and they're ones that you do without any kind of judgment. You're just putting down the facts of the situation so that you can look at them in an objective sort of way and be able to act on them possibly tomorrow.
Now, that's one way that you can help close the gap, not in one big traumatic choice, but in accumulation of small ones. So those are four questions that I genuinely love, not because they're hard or difficult intellectual puzzles, but because the real stuff that we have to deal with. I mean, the gap between knowing and doing is something that we all struggle with.
Conclusion
The weight of other people's opinions is something that we all struggle with. And learning to let that go is something that can bring a lot more peace and acceptance of ourselves in our own lives. The anxiety that shows up uninvited, that's something that we all have to deal with, but there's a difference between worrying and having that momentary anxiety that pops up telling you where something is important.
And lastly, ambition is okay. Just make sure that it's something that is virtuous and is helping you become the kind of person that you want to become. So, as I've talked about before, stoicism doesn't promise to eliminate any of the problems in your life. What do promises give you? Something solid to stand on while you face it.
And I've talked about this in plenty of my episodes. Fact, a few weeks ago I had a, an episode about where I burned out, where I just hit a wall because I was trying to do too many things. And Stoicism doesn't get rid of the problems in your life, but it gives you tools so that when you face these challenges, when you're knocked to your knees, that you're able to get back up and keep going.
The Build an Unbreakable Mind program for building mental discipline is now open for enrollment!
My book Stoicism 101 is available! Order here!
Find out more at https://stoic.coffee
Watch episodes on YouTube!
Find me on linkedIn, instagram, or threads.
Thanks again for listening!